|
|
Post by eternalmatters on Feb 21, 2009 19:44:09 GMT -5
I don't even know where to begin with this, but I'm getting hit on every side and it's about time I got this down.
Is Israel even "Israel" today? Who are these people in Jerusalem today? Is this preparation by God for the future dispensation? Is it possible there is an overlap like in the beginning of Acts?
I have to say...I believed in the rapture at first when I read "Left Behind" (dumb, I know), then I was convinced the rapture was a satanic lie, now I have to say...I'm sick of listening to men's ideas, but I don't even know where to begin to study this in the Bible.
I want this foundation to be my seeing it in the scriptures.
It seems I have to cross reference so many things...and sit down with a calculator and figure out Daniel's prophecy....I was just told to read Zechariah 14 (?)
Is there an easy way to study this?
At least a logical one?
What do you believe? ...and why?
|
|
|
|
Post by ambassador on Mar 4, 2009 23:42:16 GMT -5
Okay, the Rapture is Biblical and it is most definitely for the Church, the Body of Christ. In order to remove the Church from the earth, to deal with Israel and the unbelieving world, the Lord has to rapture the Church... we're separate from wrath and the prophetic program of Israel. The Rapture is found in 1 Corinthians 15:51-58 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, but the KJV's "falling away" in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is also the Rapture.
Today, those Jews in Israel are only Jews by LINEAGE... they are Abraham's descendants by blood, although they are just as much in need of salvation as we are. Israel has lost their priviledged position, they aren't ministering to Gentiles in a Kingdom like the OT promised... that's what Romans 11:11-12 means. One day, however, it will be out of these Jews that God will select 144,000 men to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom during the Tribulation period (Revelation 7:3-8).
Contact me if you need more info, but what I want you to see is that we in the Body of Christ are SAVED FROM WRATH, the Tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9). By the way, Zechariah 14:1-4 is Christ's Second Coming after the Tribulation... the Rapture and the Second Coming are seven years apart. The Rapture will only involve Christ standing in the air (Only believers will see Him at the rapture), whereas the WHOLE world will see Him at His Second Coming as He stands on the Mount of Olives.
|
|
|
|
Post by homer58w on Mar 12, 2009 2:59:23 GMT -5
Also, in order for the Jews to have their temple operating again as mentioned in Revelation, they would have to be back in the land of Israel. Ezekiel 37 shows the Jews back in the land, but they're not alive (they don't have HIS Spirit yet), and of course the next two chapters are about the muslim nations that tries to wipe out the Jews (notice no country comes to help them, it's GOD who wipes out most of the armies). Even Moses foretold that the Jews would be scattered about and then brought back to Israel and Hosea 6:2 it says that after two days will HE revive them, in the third day (the Kingdom Age) they shall live in HIS Sight. We know that only 1/3 of the Jews will be saved during the Tribulation and most of the Gentiles will be killed (only a few men left out of the 8 billion on earth today), even then the Lord will have to separate the sheep from the goats. People in Noah's day didn't believe there was a flood coming (not only did it rain, but the fountains of the deep broke open). Even as it was in the days of Noah, shall it be in the coming of the LORD. The Rapture, just like Paul's Gospel was a secret, a mystery hidden from prophecy. The people who get saved during the Tribulation will be in the earthly Kingdom just as the believers during the 12's ministry. Just as different as Paul and Peter. Christ will come back to the Mount of Olives in the very same body HE left in Acts 1:9, which is the same body HE is in now, seated at the right hand of GOD. Which is the same kind of body the Body of Christ will have at the Rapture. Something truly wonderful to look forward to!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by audrey on Apr 20, 2009 7:51:20 GMT -5
As I see it, modern Israel isn't the real Israel of God. She's the great harlot of Revelation 17 & 18. Throughout the OT Israel she is referred to as a "harlot" because she has turned away from God and has committed idolatry, otherwise stated as "fornication", the OT mentions her "lovers". It also mentions that she has broken the covenant between her and God.
There are two women mentioned in the Book of Revelation:
1) The woman who gives birth to the male child - this is the true Israel, the church in the wilderness. She is the New Jerusalem. The Remnant. The Bride. There wil always be a Christian Jewish remnant because Israel remember, is in partial blindness, not total blindness. It is these people who are the true Israel.
2) The other woman of course is the harlot - the Old Jerusalem, adorned in scarlet and purple, gold, pearls and precious stones - which is indicative of the Jewish High Priest's garments. She is represented by secular modern zionist Israel. The Old Jerusalem does exist today and if one looks at it, you can't help but notice it's a smorgasbord of abominations. And Judaism is in no way God pleasing either because it worships God under the Old Covenant, which God has already replaced with a New Covenant.
If you do some research you'll discover that most orthodox Jews adhere to the Talmud today, which in essence is Babylonian, hence the term "Mystery Babylon", which in itself comes from the oral law handed down by the Pharisees and Sadduccees before Jesus' time. It is this that Jesus referred to as their traditions. The Talmud is vehemently anti Christian and Christianity and blasphemes Jesus Christ.
Jesus said this to apostate Israel, the harlot:
Matthew 23:34-35
“I am sending to you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in
your synagogues and persecute from city to city, so that upon you might fall the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from
the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.” See also Luke 11:50-51 and Revelation 18:24.
Modern Israel is not the fulfillment of prophecy because the Book of Hosea states that she is "Lo-Ammi" - not my people. She has not turned to her Messiah yet. Besides, the true Israel's borders stretch up to the Euphrates and the Nile, unlike modern day Israel. The Book of Hosea is very clear that Israel will only be revived on the 2nd day - after 2000 years. Hosea 6:2 - "He will revive us after two days; He will raise us up on the third day, That we may live before Him."
Daniel's 69 weeks are proof that Israel's prophetic time clock stopped when she rejected the Messiah and crucified Him. It will only resume once again during the 70th week, which is during the tribulation period, which is after the rapture of the Body of Christ.
Ezekiel 37 has not been fulfilled. It is still a future event.
And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest. Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, HEAR THE WORD OF THE LORD. Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live: And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; AND YE SHALL KNOW THAT I AM THE LORD.
Ezekiel 37:10
So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army. This ties in with Revelation 19:13-16 when Jesus returns to earth with His army of saints.
A great revival will take place during Jacob's Trouble, amidst all the clamour, violence, hatred, persecution, earthquakes, pestilence, ungodliness, etc as can be seen by mention of the Two Witnesses and the 144 000, not to mention that it emphatically states that the Kingdom of Heaven gospel will be preached during this time, throughout the world before the end comes. That's how God will revive Israel - with His wrath on the one hand, and His loving kindness on the other, although the majority just won't get it and will be destroyed.
We are currently living in a signless age whereby NO prophecy is being fulfilled. The reason for all the strife, earthquakes, hurricanes, etc, etc on planet Earth is due to the fact that we are living in a sinful, cursed world, in sinful cursed bodies, and modern day Israel is more likely due to man's free will than God's Holy Will.
|
|
