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Post by faithplusnothing on Jan 25, 2009 13:43:18 GMT -5
Is it possible to be saved but not know that your future sins are forgiven? People that know that Jesus is their Savior but think now they have to confess their sins and ask forgiveness, do you think they are saved?
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Post by eternalmatters on Jan 25, 2009 18:08:54 GMT -5
There are so many things like this I wonder about. Good question. I know we don't have to have perfect doctrine to be saved...but it sure seems like certain things we believe mean that we could not possibly be trusting Jesus Christ ALONE for our salvation...and if we are not...we cannot be saved, correct?
OR...do we just "fall from grace" and end up with a ton of dead works?
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soup
New Member
Posts: 2
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Post by soup on Jan 28, 2009 8:22:59 GMT -5
This all boils down to faith. What sins did Jesus NOT die for? By TRUSTING our Lord and Saviour for what HE did on the cross (and not just by "accepting" him, which is so tepid), that ALL sins are forgiven by His finished work at the cross, you ARE sealed with the blessed hope. God sealed it by your trusting. It is done.
Are future sins part of "all"?
Put your trust in His faith that led Him to the cross to die for our sins.
God said it, so you should trust it. Does God lie? May you have peace with this concept.
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Post by eternalmatters on Jan 28, 2009 15:13:18 GMT -5
This all boils down to faith. What sins did Jesus NOT die for? By TRUSTING our Lord and Saviour for what HE did on the cross (and not just by "accepting" him, which is so tepid), that ALL sins are forgiven by His finished work at the cross, you ARE sealed with the blessed hope. God sealed it by your trusting. It is done. Are future sins part of "all"? Put your trust in His faith that led Him to the cross to die for our sins. God said it, so you should trust it. Does God lie? May you have peace with this concept. So...by what you wrote...would you say a person who does not know that future sins are forgiven is not in the faith? Unsaved? Does not understanding boil down to not trusting? If we can use scripture while we discuss this...that would be best. |
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Post by homer58w on Feb 2, 2009 19:21:11 GMT -5
 We know that 1 Cor 15:1-4 that Paul states that we need to know what we believe, we know that Eph 2:8-9 states that by His Grace we are saved thru faith, not of ourselves but by God's Gift. Not of works, no boasting in Heaven. Eph 3:2 states we've been given the dispensation of the Grace of God. (Ephesians chapter 2 & 3 are so wonderful!) Now to cover future sins we find Titus 3:3-8, especially verse 5: not by works of our own, but by His Mercy, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost . 1 Cor 6:11 states that no matter what we was in verse 9 & 10, we are now washed and sanctified, and justified in His name and by God's Spirit. I know that before, when I thought I was saved, either I kept asking to have my sins forgiven or else asked to be saved again! But Now, my faith and trust is in His Finished Work!
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Post by eternalmatters on Feb 5, 2009 14:59:27 GMT -5
We know that 1 Cor 15:1-4 that Paul states that we need to know what we believe, we know that Eph 2:8-9 states that by His Grace we are saved thru faith, not of ourselves but by God's Gift. Not of works, no boasting in Heaven. Eph 3:2 states we've been given the dispensation of the Grace of God. (Ephesians chapter 2 & 3 are so wonderful!) Now to cover future sins we find Titus 3:3-8, especially verse 5: not by works of our own, but by His Mercy, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost . 1 Cor 6:11 states that no matter what we was in verse 9 & 10, we are now washed and sanctified, and justified in His name and by God's Spirit. I know that before, when I thought I was saved, either I kept asking to have my sins forgiven or else asked to be saved again! But Now, my faith and trust is in His Finished Work! Are you saying you weren't saved UNTIL you could stop asking to have your sins forgiven? It's still tricky, no? You just don't know everything at the time of salvation ...so being in this world you reach out and learn from others...who teach you works based doctrine (and most will vehemently say they are not...but they are anyway). You learn from them...or even a guilty conscience to continually ask for forgiveness. Would a person who was saved be immune? Would it be a fruit of not REALLY trusting? Is there any way to really get to the root of this question? |
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Post by homer58w on Feb 10, 2009 7:37:43 GMT -5
No, what I'm saying is that I Did Not Understand What Christ Actually Did For All of Us, Including Me. I was going thru the motions, but had no understanding that Christ DID IT ALL and there wasn't anything at all that I could do except believe upon Him and put all my faith and trust in what He did. I guess it's like someone giving you directions to someplace and not fully understanding how to get there. Then someone else explains it corrrectly (or more plainly) and the light bulb comes on! Thank God He was the One Who opened my eyes!!!
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Post by eternalmatters on Feb 11, 2009 10:36:00 GMT -5
That makes sense, and yet it's what I find so confusing. Maybe I'm making it more difficult than I need to.
OK...from my Bible reading I understand Paul to exhort us to examine ourselves to be sure we are in the faith (which takes judgment), and to distance from those claiming Christ, but blatantly sinning (which takes judgment).
I know judgment is such a red hot word...but I don't think it has to be. We judge all day long in order to survive...maybe common sense is a better way to look at it?
I'm having a very hard time with the phrase: "If at one time a person believed in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour..."
I believe we are sealed.
I believe if Christ is Lord...um..."Lord" connotates more than Saviour alone (is that correct?). I also understand it's possible to be young in the faith, so some patience and love is required among the Saints.
YET...from what you just described above, it IS possible to be all messed up (or confused) theologically and still be His.
So...I'm deducing from this conversation that you could keep asking forgiveness and not understand , yet still be saved.
I would hope another Christian (really don't like that term anymore, but) would come along and correct, help, show the person their error.
Now...what if the person refuses to see the error?
Would that raise red flags?
I have so many questions...none of them truly matter, I guess.
It just seems like there is a lot of contradiction regarding knowing when you are truly saved and discerning another's salvation (because you don't want to encourage a lost person and comfort them if they are lost...Hell is not a fun place! It seems it's important to consider these issues...no?)
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Post by homer58w on Feb 13, 2009 3:55:41 GMT -5
I remembered that Paul said that "God forbid" that we continue in sin and looked those two words upon Blue Letter Bible. Romans 6:2 & 15, Romans 7:13, and 1Cor 6:15 covers that pretty well. I remember that also in 1Corinthians there was a young man who was having an affair with his step-mother. Paul told the church members to pray that Satan might distroy his body, but that his soul might be saved. So I believe that would mean that if we continue in sins that would harm our testimony, then we very well could find ourselves committing the sin unto death that Paul talked about. My problem in the past was that the church I went to as a teenager didn't rightly divide, so I found that I couldn't keep 1John 1:6-10. Therefore I kept confessing my sins and getting "saved" and found myself sinning again. I had to keep doing something to keep my salvation, so I thought. Now, I know that there's nothing I could ever do on my own and put my faith and trust in what He did! Yes, I still sin, we all do, but now I try not to because of what Christ did for me.
Every year I have to take CPR and 1st Aid training and they always stress upon us to NEVER take anything from anyone we've helped, not even a glass of water. If we would, then we've been paid for our services and then can be sued for anything. I believe the same applies to salvation, IF we think we can or have to do something for our salvation, we've made God indebted to us.
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Post by eternalmatters on Feb 17, 2009 13:19:56 GMT -5
I remembered that Paul said that "God forbid" that we continue in sin and looked those two words upon Blue Letter Bible. Romans 6:2 & 15, Romans 7:13, and 1Cor 6:15 covers that pretty well. I remember that also in 1Corinthians there was a young man who was having an affair with his step-mother. Paul told the church members to pray that Satan might distroy his body, but that his soul might be saved. So I believe that would mean that if we continue in sins that would harm our testimony, then we very well could find ourselves committing the sin unto death that Paul talked about. My problem in the past was that the church I went to as a teenager didn't rightly divide, so I found that I couldn't keep 1John 1:6-10. Therefore I kept confessing my sins and getting "saved" and found myself sinning again. I had to keep doing something to keep my salvation, so I thought. Now, I know that there's nothing I could ever do on my own and put my faith and trust in what He did! Yes, I still sin, we all do, but now I try not to because of what Christ did for me. Every year I have to take CPR and 1st Aid training and they always stress upon us to NEVER take anything from anyone we've helped, not even a glass of water. If we would, then we've been paid for our services and then can be sued for anything. I believe the same applies to salvation, IF we think we can or have to do something for our salvation, we've made God indebted to us. See...that "affair" story. I don't read it like so many others do. I don't jump to the conclusion that this person IS saved. He MIGHT be...and maybe he's not...no matter ~ get him out of your fellowship is what I learn from this ( not a teaching about being sealed!) I seem to be alone on that, so take me with a grain of salt I suppose. You are confusing me with your information about the CPR. At the end of reminding us we can't give anything to God (or more that he won't take it) you said: "IF we think we can or have to do something for our salvation, we've made God indebted to us." SO...are you trying to say that judging by the actions of the person (asking for forgiveness over and over...) that they probably aren't saved then? I'm just trying to get the jist of why you shared that in light of the question regarding being saved. |
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Post by homer58w on Feb 20, 2009 22:39:34 GMT -5
Basically I'm just giving my own experiences from when I thought I was saved as compared to what I know now. The CPR part would refer to my asking over & over to be forgiven - I thought I had to do something in my blind state of not knowing better. The young man who had the affair was saved, in 2Cor Paul told the assembly to accept him back into their fellowship. Any of us can fall into a serious sin, but that doesn't mean we lose our salvation as I once thought. The best thing that I can say is that once I heard Paul's Gospel explained to me, God opened my eyes to His Truth that I sinned because I was born a sinner and was guilty before a Holy God. But, Christ paid my sin-debt in full thru no part of my own merit and the only thing I could do was to believe Him. I couldn't tell anyone the day or place I was saved, I do know my faith and trust is solely upon what Christ did according to Paul's Gospel. I don't even worry about my sins because I know that as long as I'm in this sinful body I will sin, I just try to learn as much as I can about the Bible rightly divided and do my best to live in a way pleasing to God because of what He did for me. Sorry if I don't make my replies easier to understand, I do that at times. Most of the people seem to believe they have to say a prayer, confess their sins, or what ever else their religion teaches - none of which is in Paul's Gospel.
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Post by eternalmatters on Feb 21, 2009 22:12:22 GMT -5
Thanks for explaining.
And "the affair"...in 1 Corinithians the hearers would not know whether or not the fellow was saved. I don't read into it more than is written...I don't see that anyone knew he was saved, but a teaching to turn him over to satan. That's all I see. Not doctrine of any other kind right there.
I guess one of the hardest things to accept (and it's just my mind, not based on truth) is what you said, " I don't even worry about my sins because I know that as long as I'm in this sinful body I will sin..."
I almost liked my walk better when there was a ton of exhorting and rebuking to be better for Him. Now I feel like a legalist to even care about my own sin life:( and a legalist to notice how much grace the body of Christ takes in general...yikes. I pray for more balance all around.
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Post by audrey on Apr 7, 2009 10:09:27 GMT -5
The gospel is contained in 1 Corinthians 15.(I'm writing this off the top of my head, so please correct me if I am wrong).
Personally I think it is possible for a person to be saved and not know their future sins have already been forgiven. The Holy Spirit will always guide these people and show th
em where they are wrong. God knows our hearts. He is merciful. His grace is boundless in this Age of Grace.
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Post by faithplusnothing on Apr 9, 2009 12:57:00 GMT -5
If we don't understand that our future sins are forgiven also, then we not trusting our salvation to Him and what He did on the cross. I think it's a problem of what we've learned and heard that gets in the way of our salvation. We have heard such a wide range of teachings and sermons about it but we don't get it from scripture. It's like we have to be deprogramed. I can't ever remember a time where I didn't know that Jesus died for my sins. I just didn't trust it alone. I trusted the history of it but not for me personally. I don't think I was saved before the light bulb came on but I thank the Lord that it did come on!
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Post by audrey on Apr 15, 2009 6:42:24 GMT -5
A good way to sum it up:
The forgiveness of our sins was already accomplished 2000 years ago and it's a work of God, not man.
It is a free gift, not a reward.
We know our sins are forgiven, we don't hope that they are.
We don't live in fear, we live in faith.
We don't live according to the Law, we live according to Love.
We aren't religious, we're regenerate.
It's not about our actions (works) anymore, but our attitude.
It isn't man's way, but God's way.
We don't have to do, because it's been done by God's grace.
We don't try, we trust.
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We know that 1 Cor 15:1-4 that Paul states that we need to know what we believe, we know that Eph 2:8-9 states that by His Grace we are saved thru faith, not of ourselves but by God's Gift. Not of works, no boasting in Heaven. Eph 3:2 states we've been given the dispensation of the Grace of God. (Ephesians chapter 2 & 3 are so wonderful!) Now to cover future sins we find Titus 3:3-8, especially verse 5: not by works of our own, but by His Mercy, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. 1 Cor 6:11 states that no matter what we was in verse 9 & 10, we are now washed and sanctified, and justified in His name and by God's Spirit. I know that before, when I thought I was saved, either I kept asking to have my sins forgiven or else asked to be saved again! But Now, my faith and trust is in His Finished Work!